Rayman will be in Academy of Champions

Talk about Rayman himself and Rayman games!

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Lijik
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Re: Rayman will be in Academy of Champions

Post by Lijik »

spiraldoor wrote:
Lijik wrote:
spiraldoor wrote: I think that Nintendo indirectly contributed, what with their Wii development tools causing the cancellation of R4 and its recycling into RRR1.
If they did indirectly contribute then its effect on R4 becoming RRR is very minor. Ubisoft wanting as many games available for launch was what the prime factor in what caused the shift. RRR as we know it was cranked out in 6 months with a very strict deadline in order to have the game out on launch day. A decently lengthed minigame compliation is much easier to make than a decently lengthed platformer in that amount of time.
You seem to be agreeing with me.
No what Im arguing is Nintendo had no effect on us getting RRR, and if it wasnt for the minigames we might have never seen the game in any form at all which might have led to bleaker future for Rayman.

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Re: Rayman will be in Academy of Champions

Post by spiraldoor »

Lijik wrote:
spiraldoor wrote:
Lijik wrote:
spiraldoor wrote: I think that Nintendo indirectly contributed, what with their Wii development tools causing the cancellation of R4 and its recycling into RRR1.
If they did indirectly contribute then its effect on R4 becoming RRR is very minor. Ubisoft wanting as many games available for launch was what the prime factor in what caused the shift. RRR as we know it was cranked out in 6 months with a very strict deadline in order to have the game out on launch day. A decently lengthed minigame compliation is much easier to make than a decently lengthed platformer in that amount of time.
You seem to be agreeing with me.
No what Im arguing is Nintendo had no effect on us getting RRR, and if it wasnt for the minigames we might have never seen the game in any form at all which might have led to bleaker future for Rayman.
Actually, the minigame compilation we have now is much, much worse than nothing. Not only has it ruined any chance that they'd ever get around to completing the R4 prototype, but it has also left an abominable stain on the Rayman's until-then excellent reputation, as well as spawning a series of increasingly shitty sequels which no one in possession of a human brain could possibly derive any enjoyment from.

And the cancellation of R4 WAS sue to Nintendo's interference:
Interview with some guy from Ubisoft wrote:This game was handed to the team that developed the first Rayman. When we were looking at design for the new Rayman we received the first Wii dev-kits, so we began prototyping different moves within the game.

We realised very early on that there were so many things we could explore in terms of movements. We knew the game was going to be a launch title, and we felt that we really wanted to explore the controller.

Rayman is all about fun and the interaction with the Wii Remote, and the control that it introduced, gave us a whole new creative outlook too explore. That's why we decided to do the mini-games and first-person plunger games.
In other words: everything that you just said is wrong.

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Re: Rayman will be in Academy of Champions

Post by Acarr »

Rayman is all about fun and the interaction with the Wii Remote
Ok, wtf is this guy on about?
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Re: Rayman will be in Academy of Champions

Post by PluMGMK »

UbiSoft seem to be talking a lot of rubbish these past few years.

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Re: Rayman will be in Academy of Champions

Post by Haruka »

Yes... :(

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Re: Rayman will be in Academy of Champions

Post by Clara Knight »

WTH?! Rayman looks so...weird, or to say better horrible in this picture! OO His...eyes! Xx

I miss the Rayman 2 style...

And of course, no comments about the rabbid...

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Re: Rayman will be in Academy of Champions

Post by syntheticgerbil »

Lijik wrote:Um what? The people behind Castle Crashers have been making games and doing animation for well over a decade. The programmer for that game founded Newgrounds.(Back in 1995 if you didn't know). Johnathon Blow also had several small projects he did for few years before making Braid. Those are also 2d games made by smaller teams, which are easier to make look good than a 3d game as the art gets touched by less hands. The concept artist and the animator tend to be the same person in a 2d game. In a 3d game (especially with a larger team of people where you have seperate people doing each job), you've got a concept artist (or several), modellers, riggers, texture artists and animators. For a first time team at the size I'm assuming this one is it is much harder to coordinate a clear artistic vision among multiple people.
No, I completely know about all of those creators, which is why I brought it up. They are not veterans of the professional world, which is a whole different animal. Just because they have had personal projects in the past, including the Newgrounds website (which includes many ugly and badly made games by Fulp), they aren't anywhere close to the time, experience, and variety some of the people at Ubisoft have dealt with working there. Tom Fulp, Jonathan Blow, and Dan Paladin are not equal to the links of Ancel, Raynal, or Mechner (who was usurped by Guyot as Creative Director when Ubisoft pissed him off). Sorry to burst your bubble, but people that work mainly in Flash and more rudimentary C++ coding without dealing directly with 3D engines are still experienced but in no way veterans, especially of commerically made games.

I work at a game studio myself and every programmer and artist here has their own pet projects dating back decades, myself included. None of that means I am a hardened veteran or necessarily anyone else I work with is. I am also aware of all of those jobs and what they entail, so you don't need to talk down to me as I probably know more about how they work than you. None of the small studios and people I named earlier have worked on huge teams and dealt with outsourcing or intense graphics, programming, and international marketing. None of that is bad but it's all a part of being a "hardened veteran."

You can be a good cook at home and make "professional looking" meals, but once you take the step into the commercial world and start presenting your meals at a restaurant, you are in a completely different game.

Whether you need to make excuses for whether the Acadeny of Champions team can coordinate a "clear artistic vision" or not does not matter me. The end product is what matters more than anything, no matter how new or big your team is. This game looks like shit. Sorry, them's the breaks. Ubisoft is a multinational gaming corporation that has the resources and the talent and they are more than able to hire a good capable art director (veteran or not) to spice up some spin off soccer game. What more than likely is going on here is a budget made release that will make some quick bucks rather than Ubisoft making great use of it's great talent on staff. Whatever it's a dumb spin off soccer game, but they could certainly at least make it look nice in the process. I could sit here and design 16 characters with more life than these guys and model them nice in 3D and I've only been in the industry 3 years now. This game is desperately in need of talent and direction and (not that I really care) even then, it sucks they drag their "mascots" into it, that is my point.
Lijik wrote:This tripe is whats funding things like Ancel's creations. If you'll also notice, Ubisoft as a whole is a lot more secretive than they used to be. Back in the mid 90s they showed off anything and everything. There were magazine articles over the original 2d version of Rayman 2 and an early version of Tonic Trouble. Nowadays we don't see much from them until its close to completion. For example, most of Ancel's team had been working on Rabbids go Home since RRR1 was wrapped up but we didn't hear anything about until three years later. BG&E2 is an incredibly ambitious title thats going to take a long time before we see anything of it. Just because he's not showing anything doesn't mean hes not doing something. (unless you're trying to stealth troll that BG&E2 isn't important)
Sorry, wrong. Ancel is directly responsible for Ubisoft's initial success and growth in the 90s and furthermore it sounds like you have no idea how games are developed, since you are going on about Ubisoft's alleged secrecy, which is irrelevant, than actually addressing the issue of what the company is now and how they present themselves and their games. Beyond Good and Evil *will* die if there is no sequel finished soon. People will forget there is even a first game. One of the big rules about marketing is following through.

I will pull you a very important quote about Ron Gilbert's success in the video games industry:
"I remember a meeting once, right after the original Backyard Baseball shipped.

It wasn't selling like Putt-Putt or Freddi. Someone suggested that HE should just stick to adventure games. Let's bury Backyard Baseball and forget it ever happened.

But Ron Gilbert said something like, "No. We have to do 3 of these (Baseball, Soccer, Football) before we think about giving up. We can't give up now." And so when everyone else wanted to cut bait after 1 failed product, Ron wanted to do 2 more! So HE took a gamble, and with the release of BYFootball, the whole line took off, eventually surpassing the extremely successful Junior Adventure line.

No one at Infogramatari ever had the balls or vision to take such a stand. So HE died a slow, whimpering death at the hands of those who were too afraid to evolve, innovate, reinvent.

So say what you will about Ron. Sure his jokes are sometimes lame. His personal hygiene leaves much to be desired. But the man actually put his neck on the line (probably many more times than I even know), which is much more than I can say about any of the losers that eventually killed his company."
Ubisoft has quit the business of following through on anything other than the new moneymakers, cheap outsourced ports and handhelds, and their licenses while almost completely forgetting their original IP and developers that made the company what it is now. If Beyond Good and Evil were important to the company, it would be in *full* development and stated that way three years ago. Shaun White Snowboarding be damned and Assassin's Creed was obviously undeveloped and overhyped if you pay attention to critical reviews over out of 10 numbers and sales. Right now it's more than obvious Ancel and his small team are on the payroll as an asset of respect rather than an actual investment in the ideas the man has. Can you argue against that?

Also, it appears you have not been paying attention, but Ancel was widely reported as unhappy with the Rabbids and refused to support the game as it came out. He threatened to quit and in turn Ubisoft consoled him by giving his Beyond Good and Evil 2 development a thumbs up after saying publicly numerous times that they cannot support a sequel to the game while openly admitting they did not even properly market it in the first place. They are repeating themselves yet again with their new statements.

So who's the troll now?

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Re: Rayman will be in Academy of Champions

Post by MLII »

All I can say is:
Acarr wrote:
Rayman is all about fun and the interaction with the Wii Remote
Ok, wtf is this guy on about?
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Acarr
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Re: Rayman will be in Academy of Champions

Post by Acarr »

MLII[2Random4U] wrote:All I can say is:
Acarr wrote:
Rayman is all about fun and the interaction with the Wii Remote
Ok, wtf is this guy on about?

...which is basicially what I said. Infact, exactly what I said.
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Re: Rayman will be in Academy of Champions

Post by Xenon »

Well, to be fair, it was mainly about the user's interaction with the Wiimote. Ubisoft changed tactics and quickly designed the Rabbid games in time for the Wii's release so that they could make an appeal to the new Wii-market. Old games and their invaluable fans, out the window!
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Re: Rayman will be in Academy of Champions

Post by Acarr »

I understood what the guy meant by that, it was really just the way he said Rayman in the context... And don't get me started on them making it a new-console-release game! :pascontent:


But I would have probably done the same if I were in their shoes! :mrgreen: You can't deny how popular the Rabbids have proved to be... (it kills me to say that.)
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Re: Rayman will be in Academy of Champions

Post by Haruka »

Acarr wrote:I understood what the guy meant by that, it was really just the way he said Rayman in the context... And don't get me started on them making it a new-console-release game! :pascontent:


But I would have probably done the same if I were in their shoes! :mrgreen: You can't deny how popular the Rabbids have proved to be... (it kills me to say that.)
So they just did that to release the game on the same time as Wii... -` ´-

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Re: Rayman will be in Academy of Champions

Post by Cairnie »

Most launch games in general fail.
giant photobucket picture wuz ere

so wuz old psn banner

you know old out of date stuff

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Re: Rayman will be in Academy of Champions

Post by syntheticgerbil »

Xenon wrote:Well, to be fair, it was mainly about the user's interaction with the Wiimote. Ubisoft changed tactics and quickly designed the Rabbid games in time for the Wii's release so that they could make an appeal to the new Wii-market. Old games and their invaluable fans, out the window!
StaceyW wrote:Most launch games in general fail.
Yeah you guys are right, it was definitely most easily a money grab for a launch game. It sure didn't end up like Red Steel and RRR may have been one of the best selling 3rd party games at the time of the Wii's launch, so that's a plus.

I just wish they didn't do all that and piss Michel Ancel off at the same time and put his vision for a fourth Rayman game on an indefinite hold (along with BG&E2 apparently). I was initially okay with the Rabbids concept. I thought that they were funny, but I did not realize it would mean RRR2, TV Party, and Rabbids Go Home would be coming down the line along with it. The whole reason Rayman was successful for Ubisoft in the first place was because people loved the platforming elements, the characters, and the art direction, it seems strange to veer so off the path so long from what the original games were.

Wario games became more about quirky minigames, which were great, but at least Nintendo still keeps putting out Wario platformers, even if debatably they aren't as good as the Warioland series.

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Re: Rayman will be in Academy of Champions

Post by Acarr »

It's really hard to remember how I could ever have been excited about RRR coming up back in 2006 (or something), but then how could I not?
I thought they seemed really funny and quirky, and playing the game for the first time was thrilling, even though I was deeply disapointed with it not being a platformer etc., I went and somehow managed to get ahold of a Wii (from germany lol) just so I could play the game using the remotes (I emphasised using 2 TV remotes and a GBA multiplayer wire taped together for practice :oops2: ).

If it wasn't for RRR, and getting me to get back into Rayman (since I had forgotten all about him since Rayman: Hoodlums Revenge) I wouldn't be sitting here typing this right now I can assure you.
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Re: Rayman will be in Academy of Champions

Post by Haruka »

syntheticgerbil wrote:
Xenon wrote:Well, to be fair, it was mainly about the user's interaction with the Wiimote. Ubisoft changed tactics and quickly designed the Rabbid games in time for the Wii's release so that they could make an appeal to the new Wii-market. Old games and their invaluable fans, out the window!
StaceyW wrote:Most launch games in general fail.
Yeah you guys are right, it was definitely most easily a money grab for a launch game. It sure didn't end up like Red Steel and RRR may have been one of the best selling 3rd party games at the time of the Wii's launch, so that's a plus.

I just wish they didn't do all that and piss Michel Ancel off at the same time and put his vision for a fourth Rayman game on an indefinite hold (along with BG&E2 apparently). I was initially okay with the Rabbids concept. I thought that they were funny, but I did not realize it would mean RRR2, TV Party, and Rabbids Go Home would be coming down the line along with it. The whole reason Rayman was successful for Ubisoft in the first place was because people loved the platforming elements, the characters, and the art direction, it seems strange to veer so off the path so long from what the original games were.

Wario games became more about quirky minigames, which were great, but at least Nintendo still keeps putting out Wario platformers, even if debatably they aren't as good as the Warioland series.
You are absolutely correct as I have the same oppinion. I just hope that Ubisoft doesn't go over the limits after what was rumored about Ancel's menace of quitting. :mefiant:
And I love Rayman because of the reasons you wrote about the first games.
Acarr wrote:It's really hard to remember how I could ever have been excited about RRR coming up back in 2006 (or something), but then how could I not?
I thought they seemed really funny and quirky, and playing the game for the first time was thrilling, even though I was deeply disapointed with it not being a platformer etc., I went and somehow managed to get ahold of a Wii (from germany lol) just so I could play the game using the remotes (I emphasised using 2 TV remotes and a GBA multiplayer wire taped together for practice :oops2: ).

If it wasn't for RRR, and getting me to get back into Rayman (since I had forgotten all about him since Rayman: Hoodlums Revenge) I wouldn't be sitting here typing this right now I can assure you.
I will repeat this, I can remember that in 2006 I was navigating on Raymanzone website and read the official news of a comming Rayman 4. I was so happy and excited (The funniest thing was that I was saving money for some time to buy the Wii on Europe's Launchment day)! And on Summer when I saw the E3 trailer I got even more excited! But when I bought the game and saw how was the final version... First I got disappointed because it wasn't a platforming as it had nothing about the trailer. After playing it, I confess that I liked the game, I laughed a lot (But I didn't like the ending). Now what I wasn't expecting was Ubisoft making more 3 Rabbid games and putting Rayman on side even more. :( That really pissed me off.

What makes me also very sad is that new "Rayman" players, when you ask to them about it, they immediatly refer "Rayman" to "The Rabbids"!
Ubisoft left a big damage on Rayman's protagonism and (for me) only Ancel can fix it... :cry:

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Re: Rayman will be in Academy of Champions

Post by spiraldoor »

I wonder when Ancel will leave Ubisoft.

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Re: Rayman will be in Academy of Champions

Post by PluMGMK »

If he leaves UbiSoft, we'll never get a Rayman game! I'd have been happy if there was no R4, but now they have to make one to fix what's broken.

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Re: Rayman will be in Academy of Champions

Post by Haruka »

PluMGMK wrote:If he leaves UbiSoft, we'll never get a Rayman game! I'd have been happy if there was no R4, but now they have to make one to fix what's broken.
Exactly, that was what I wanted to mean.

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Re: Rayman will be in Academy of Champions

Post by Acarr »

Maybe Ancel's in hiding, too scared to come face to face with the public. :paranormal:
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