Rayman 2 Soundtrack in FLAC or WAV?

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kooz
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Re: Rayman 2 Soundtrack in FLAC or WAV?

Post by kooz »

Hello everyone. I was tossing around the idea of ripping the Rayman 2: Revolution soundtrack from the PS2 when I came across this site.

Just thought I'd let you know the Rayman 2 rip you have up is version 1 of my "DC-analog-out-to-soundcard-line-in" recording (except for the "extras" tracks, I do not claim credit for those). I am that "unknown hero" :o I later revised the arrangement using my original wav files, which I posted to underground-gamer in 2007.

I think a couple of you figured out the mechanics behind the rip already, but I thought the recording method, as well as the pattern/loop order deserved some explanation... Here is the information I posted along with the v2 rip at UG:

Code: Select all

-Album Details-

Title:  Rayman 2: The Great Escape Original Soundtrack
Composer: Eric Chevalier
Publisher:  Ubi Soft, Inc.
Release Date: 2000


-Rip Details-

Source:  Sega Dreamcast NTSC(U)
Method:  Analog via console audio-out
Hardware:  SB Audigy4 Pro
Software:  Adobe Audition 2.0
MP3 Encoder:  LAME 3.97
Command Line: -V 0 --vbr-new
ID3 Tags:  ID3v2.3.0 - complete, ID3v1.1 - abbreviated

Ripped by kooz on 8/1/02, encoded on 10/4/07
Included Files:  NFO, SFV, M3U


-Tracklist-

[DISC 1]
01. Prologue
02. Globox, My Friend
03. The Woods of Light
04. King of the Teensies
05. Overworld
06. The Fairy Glade - Part 1
07. Pirates! - Part 1
08. Entering the Pirate Ship
09. The Machine
10. Freeing Ly
11. The Fairy Glade - Part 2
12. Bonus Level
13. The Marshes of Awakening
14. Surfing Through the Marshes
15. I'll Miss You, My Friend
16. Meanwhile, In the Pirate Prison Ship
17. The Bayou - Part 1
18. Pirates! - Part 2
19. The Bayou - Part 2
20. The Sanctuary of Water and Ice
21. The Attack Run
22. Axel - Guardian of the Sanctuary of Water and Ice
23. The First Mask
24. Polokus - Spirit of the World
25. Riding the Shell
26. Pirates! - Part 3
27. Clark
-------------------------
Play Time:  1:03:40

[DISC 2]
01. The Cave of Bad Dreams
02. The Chase
03. Spider Attack
04. The Canopy
05. Pirates! Part 4
06. Whale Bay - Part 1
07. Whale Bay - Part 2
08. The Sanctuary of Stone and Fire - Part 1
09. Riding the Lava
10. The Sanctuary of Stone and Fire - Part 2
11. The Sanctuary of Stone and Fire - Part 3
12. The Slide
13. Umber - Guardian of The Sanctuary of Stone and Fire
14. The Flying Barrel
15. The Precipice
16. The Top of the World
17. The Sanctuary of Rock and Lava
18. Flower Ride
19. Lava Tower
20. Beneath the Sanctuary of Rock and Lava
21. The Tomb of the Ancients
22. The Iron Mountain
23. The Prison Ship
24. Freeing the Slaves
25. Pyralums
26. The Disk - Intro
27. The Disk
28. The Final Battle
29. One Last Surprise
30. Ending Sequence
31. Staff Roll
-------------------------
Play Time:  1:05:40


-Final Notes-

A labor of love.  This was an extremely difficult soundtrack
to rip.  It started out simple enough: the OST isn't available
on CD, so I knew what I had to do.  However, soon after I began
recording, it became readily apparent that this would be no
easy task.  This game's music evolves as you progress through
each stage.

This meant I would need to record each "section" of every stage
individually, waiting for an obvious loop.  I would then
progress to the next part of the stage where the music changed,
and repeat this process.  I kept track of my progress by simply
numbering each recording.  I played through the game completely,
achieving 100% completion to ensure every track was recorded. I
ended up with roughly 5 or 6 hours worth of raw material.

Next up was editing.  Luckily for me, the Dreamcast (or maybe
the developer) was not completely seamless in transitions
between loops.  This made finding the beginning and ending
points for each segment relatively easy, by pinpointing an
audible click, or possible imperfection in synchronization.

My original idea was to let each "segment" of each stage loop
twice before continuing on to the next, repeating this process
until the stage was complete.  For this early build I had also
decided to leave the original system-generated loop points
alone, along with the minor click or sync issue one would hear
while playing the game, striving to keep the original sound as
intact as possible.  This version was completed shortly after
the tracks were ripped, around 11/02, and was 3 full CDs long.

After several listens through, I decided that the problem with
my original edit was two-fold...  First, the tracks were too
lengthy, with far too much repetition.  Secondly, the idea of
retaining the original system's loop edit points was much more
justifiable in theory than in practice.  From an archival or
purist standpoint, it makes sense.  From a listener's
perspective, however, it creates a slight disconnection from the
music, which is really what I had been recording this for.
These observations brought upon my final edit, years later.

From 7/23 to 7/26/06, I re-edited the soundtrack a final time,
to create what you have here.  This time, each segment is
played once, then continues on to the next, seamlessly.  The
original edit points were smoothed out/deleted/lengthened/etc.
to accomodate for sync issues that may detract from the flow
of the tracks.  You should find each one to be seamless, as if
it were originally recorded that way.  At this point, I am
fairly confident that this OST is as close to the way the
composer originally intended for his score to play out.

Tracks are in chronological order, named according to the stage
or event they represent as closely as possible.

One last note, for the purists out there.  It is obvious to me
that this is a type of transcode.  The source of this material
is certainly not MIDI, nor CDDA.  There are times when, to the
trained ear, compression artifacts are apparent.  These are part
of the orignal source, and unfortunately unavoidable.  Sometime
later down the line, I may consider doing a rip of the PS2
version, as the quality of that source may be better.

In the meantime, I hope you enjoy this soundtrack.  I have
poured many hours into it.

-kooz

If nobody here has an underground-gamer account, I can upload this revised version somewhere. In addition to a more natural/seamless track flow, the encode is at V0 VBR rather than 192kbps CBR. If a FLAC version is still desired I can dig out my old archive DVD-R and re-encode the WAVs... Unfortunately, the quality issues you're trying to sidestep are not introduced by the MP3 bitrate/encoder (think about it... LAME 3.93 @ 192 CBR / LAME 3.97 V0 VBR will both produce great sounding files), its the source material.

That brings me to why I'm revisiting the idea of doing a PS2 rip: the source material is higher quality/less compressed than any other platform (correct me if I'm wrong). The PC version seems to have an aliased/low-bit-depth hissy-ness, the PSX version is abridged all to hell, the N64 is basically a different soundtrack altogether, and the portable versions just combine these issues in various forms...

This time around there are PC tools available to bypass the need for manual analog recording, which I can see has been discussed to some extent. From what I'm reading, it looks like the arrangement/flow of the segments is the primary problem... in other words, someone needs to meticulously arrange them with the same care that had been taken with the DC rip... Well, I've already extracted the raw streams and decoded to WAV... its a royal mess, but it's not much worse than what I had after my recording session in '02, so I'm gonna get started. :hehe:
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Re: Rayman 2 Soundtrack in FLAC or WAV?

Post by Droolie »

Hey there Mr kooz the now-known hero! I just registered at UG for you :P

Your rip is pretty good, but the sad truth about the Dreamcast version is that it's pretty bad quality audio: mono and 11025Hz. Your files are stereo because Rayman 2 for Dreamcast's sound engine plays it as stereo and adds a reverb effect to it. Try listening to your rip: there are no differences between the left and right channel. :/

The Dreamcast sound can be ripped from the game disc without the need of a manual analog recording, by the way. It's just that it's really not worth it because of the horrible quality. The PC version has everything the Dreamcast version has - and in far better quality (stereo and 22050Hz) - except "the Disk" and "Freeing the Slaves". Those are in the PS2 version though, also in the same quality as the PC version (that's right, also stereo 22050Hz, but without the "hiss" sound the PC version has).

If you used Ray2Get, the audio is not a royal mess at all. You just need to join them and you have the full tracks, as they were originally intended by Eric Chevalier and not in the different order they were given in the game itself. Same for the Dreamcast version, except that you'll have to deal with the low quality there.

I'm about halfway in my Rayman Revolution rip - which IS a mess: so many duplicate tracks while they could just have had better quality audio instead! The audio segments are mostly in the order they are given in the game itself though, which means that if I release both versions, everyone is happy: the ones who want the original music and the ones who want the music as heard in the game. That's why I'm waiting to release my PC rip, which is already done.

I'm going to upload the PSX version's music later as well, because while it's abridged like you say, it also has 44100Hz and 37800Hz audio. You can literally hear the quality difference. :D

I won't update RayTunes to add your name to the rip because mine is coming really soon anyway.
kooz
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Re: Rayman 2 Soundtrack in FLAC or WAV?

Post by kooz »

Your rip is pretty good, but the sad truth about the Dreamcast version is that it's pretty bad quality audio: mono and 11025Hz. Your files are stereo because Rayman 2 for Dreamcast's sound engine plays it as stereo and adds a reverb effect to it. Try listening to your rip: there are no differences between the left and right channel. :/
I'm not trying to start a fight here or anything, but you should check your facts... My rips (both v1 - posted at RayTunes, and v2 - posted at UG) were recorded from a DC playing an original Rayman 2 GD-ROM. If you listen to these rips it is quite obvious they are from a true stereo source.
I suspect you ripped ADXs from a downsampled MIL-CD release; specifically Rayman_2_PAL_DC-CCS, as the NFO specifically notes:

Code: Select all

Most of the Music has been converted to MONO, some of it downsampled, to
   fit this 950MB monster onto a 650MB CD.
As such... this scene release is completely useless as an audio source, and should not be used as a representation of the DC platform's audio quality.
The Dreamcast sound can be ripped from the game disc without the need of a manual analog recording, by the way.
Indeed, however my rip was originally recorded in 2002, before such tools were at my disposal. The playback is on authentic hardware, and quality loss/interference picked up as a result of going from [digital source] > [analog interconnect] > [digital recorder] is minimal... A great amount of time went into editing/reconstruction of this original recording, so I decided to publish it as-is, with the possible intention of using it as a guideline for a full digital rip in the future.
You just need to join them and you have the full tracks, as they were originally intended by Eric Chevalier and not in the different order they were given in the game itself.
I guess there's no sense in arguing this one, as it boils down to opinion really. I personally believe the pattern order should be chronological; i.e. playback should occur in the same order in which the player was intended to experience it in. I haven't listened to the soundtrack packaged with the GoG release, but I'm curious to know how it was arranged, as well as WHO (Ubi? Eric Chevalier? Someone at GoG?) arranged it.
Rayman Revolution rip - which IS a mess: so many duplicate tracks while they could just have had better quality audio instead
I completely agree, though I have a feeling the redundant data is there to improve seek times while streaming other game data. Seems like they took the easy way out, rather than using that extra space to improve quality :roll:
I'm going to upload the PSX version's music later as well, because while it's abridged like you say, it also has 44100Hz and 37800Hz audio. You can literally hear the quality difference.
I believe you 100% on that one. I think for the highest quality possible, any tracks that can be replaced by PSX equivalents should be.

As far as updating the ripper credits on RayTunes... I don't really care about getting the credit. That rip is sub-par (IMO) at this point anyway, and at the very least, should be replaced by the v2 at UG.
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Re: Rayman 2 Soundtrack in FLAC or WAV?

Post by Droolie »

Hey, I'm sorry if I sounded angry or anything. I wasn't, I just thought it was a pity you were spending so much effort on such a low quality soundtrack. But it isn't low quality at all! Thanks for correcting me there. I checked with the original GD-ROM now - should've done that before - and it's stereo 22050Hz, just like the PC and PS2 versions. And it doesn't have the hiss sound the PC version has. So the DC version is superior to the PC version in quality and content. That means our quality vs. extra audio problem is solved now! THANK YOU MR HERO! :D
I'll rip the DC version now (won't take too long) and then add the extra tracks from Revolution. That'll spare me a lot of work trying to rip everything from Revolution because of the hiss in the PC version.
Again, thank you so much, you saved me from weeks of hard work on Revolution.
So now the credits for the R2 rip are: "ripped by Droolie, many thanks to Kooz, Infernus and Synthesis". Since all of those people made their own rips, maybe I'll add a link to the rips when you click the names on RayTunes. Is that alright for you?
kooz
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Re: Rayman 2 Soundtrack in FLAC or WAV?

Post by kooz »

LOL, I never intended on dropping in here and being called a hero, but I'm definitely glad to help, in the interest of achieving the highest quality Rayman 2 OST possible.

The plan sounds great to me :D Remember to substitute PSX tracks when applicable, as I think we are both in agreement that they are vastly superior in quality! There's nearly an hour of content in raw (un-looped) form there - so a pretty significant portion can actually come from that source. If you need any help with getting the loops to be seamless or anything let me know.

Also, I haven't done any side-by-side comparisons of the DC vs. PS2 streams. I know they're both stereo @ 22050Hz, but quality-wise they may be different. When I get a chance I'll do some listening tests. There are some audible compression artifacts on the DC, and I'd like to know if they're present in the PS2 version. If that is the case, then the daunting task of editing the PS2 version together may still be a reality.
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Re: Rayman 2 Soundtrack in FLAC or WAV?

Post by ray62 »

Okay this looks like a mess haha. But i've tried to work on the soundtrack too but god it's frustrating so again I'm going to ask. Is there now somewhere a soundtrack of the Rayman 2 The Great Escape which has the perfect quality and the parts of the songs are in the right order?? I hope someone still reads this haha.
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Re: Rayman 2 Soundtrack in FLAC or WAV?

Post by ray62 »

I'm just downloading the kooz's version and if I've understood correctly the songs are constructed in the right way? But it seems to be mp3 so is there a WAV version of this?
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Re: Rayman 2 Soundtrack in FLAC or WAV?

Post by Droolie »

Ray62, I don't think there is a FLAC version of kooz's version. You should try out the one currently on RayTunes, it is by far the most complete one available (all music from Rayman 2 for PC, DC, PSOne, iOS, 3DS and PS2) and it's in FLAC as well: http://hosting.raymanpc.com/raytunes/#r2
Just click the logo to get the FLAC version (same for R1, RO and RRR by the way). ;)
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Re: Rayman 2 Soundtrack in FLAC or WAV?

Post by ray62 »

Thank you for quick answer... So in this version the songs are "right" I mean in the way they were meant to be?
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Re: Rayman 2 Soundtrack in FLAC or WAV?

Post by Droolie »

They're indeed in the order they were meant to be, not in the order used in the game. ;)
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Re: Rayman 2 Soundtrack in FLAC or WAV?

Post by ray62 »

Love this version! Thank you! Btw I guess there is no right names for the songs so these are just made up by people?
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Re: Rayman 2 Soundtrack in FLAC or WAV?

Post by Droolie »

ray62 wrote:Love this version! Thank you! Btw I guess there is no right names for the songs so these are just made up by people?
You're welcome! ^^
Yeah, I made them up but wherever I could, I based them on the original filenames in the game.
For example, "ASTRO" became "The Celestial Slide" as "astro"="star" and it was used in a slide section of the game.
Glad you like it :)
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Re: Rayman 2 Soundtrack in FLAC or WAV?

Post by Adsolution »

So that explains why looking through the level folders in Rayman 2 always brought me to one named "Astro." I guess I'll have to start thinking French.
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Re: Rayman 2 Soundtrack in FLAC or WAV?

Post by Rulez »

RayFan9876 wrote:So that explains why looking through the level folders in Rayman 2 always brought me to one named "Astro." I guess I'll have to start thinking French.
Sure, just don't give up too soon.
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Re: Rayman 2 Soundtrack in FLAC or WAV?

Post by Droolie »

RayFan9876 wrote:So that explains why looking through the level folders in Rayman 2 always brought me to one named "Astro." I guess I'll have to start thinking French.
"Astro" doesn't mean anything in French either, it comes from "astronomique" (or anything else starting with "astr-", from the Greek "astèr"="star") which is just "astronomic" in English. I guess you'll have to start thinking about your English too. :P
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Re: Rayman 2 Soundtrack in FLAC or WAV?

Post by Adsolution »

Drolpiraat wrote:
RayFan9876 wrote:So that explains why looking through the level folders in Rayman 2 always brought me to one named "Astro." I guess I'll have to start thinking French.
"Astro" doesn't mean anything in French either, it comes from "astronomique" (or anything else starting with "astr-", from the Greek "astèr"="star") which is just "astronomic" in English. I guess you'll have to start thinking about your English too. :P
Nah, my English is fine. I figured you meant that "astro" meant something specific in French, sort of a slang abbreviation (you know, English has lots of those).
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Re: Rayman 2 Soundtrack in FLAC or WAV?

Post by Raylex »

Actually, Astro in French can refer to the manga or a lottery ticket (in this case, it is the abbreviation of "astrology") :mrgreen:
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Re: Rayman 2 Soundtrack in FLAC or WAV?

Post by The Jonster »

They're both rpetty good.
Always be true to yourself.
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