Religion – your views

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Does God exist?

Yeah
47
31%
Nope
66
43%
Maybe
39
26%
 
Total votes: 152

Harpic fraîcheur
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Re: Religion – your views

Post by Harpic fraîcheur »

Stop being tolerant Hunchman ffs. Why did you think I opened le topic raciste in the French forums?
Rock_TBT
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Re: Religion – your views

Post by Rock_TBT »

PRESENTATION EVALUATING RELIGION:
(Video-form: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xKoJvd ... wkrar/view )

You might have heard the claim; religions do not have any evidence.
This is *not* an entirely true statement.
Any person who holds to a religous position has some sort of evidence for their position.
The evidence might be (1) a spiritual experience, (2) a written record or (3) a miracle-claim.
What is important is to evaluate whether the written record is historically reliable and whether there are any alternative explanations that can account for the data to a greater extent and is the least ad-hoc.

In this presentation, the central claims of buddhism, polytheism, islam, mormonism and christianity will be evaluated.

The following criteria will be used to evaluate the religions:
One – Are there any alternative explanations that are within reason?
Two – When was the written record written down?
Three – Is it a conspiracy theory?

Buddhism:
Buddhism will now be evaluated.

What is the central claim of buddhism?
The central claim is that reincarnation perpetually occurs, where the aim is to reach nihilistic oblivion called Nirvana.

What is the evidence for reincarnation?
The cited evidence of reincarnation is Ian Stevenson´s studies about children with memories of past lives, allegedly.

There are severe methodological problems of Stevenson´s studies and Stevenson *himself* has admitted that *all* cases have severe flaws. Even if someone assumes that the data in Stevenson´s study is valid for the sake of argument, there are several alternative explanations that can account for the data better than reincarnation.
- One naturalistic alternative explanation is morphic resonance, which is a naturalistic process where self-organising systems inherit a memory from previous similar systems by genetic similarity.
- Another naturalistic alternative explanation is akaschic field and retrorecognition, where all human experience becomes part of a collective memory bank of the humankind to be read out again and again.
- Another naturalistic alternative explanation is memory bundles, which explains why so many memories are connected to a geogrpahic region and connected to deceased family relatives.
- Another naturalistic alternative explanation is mental ocean theory, where conciousness is like an ocean and cups are sporadically taken out and eventually will lead to overlap, which explains why some memories overlap.
- Another naturalistic alternative explanation is mundane explanations, such as jealousy of the opposite sex.
- One supernaturalistic alternative explanation is demonic possession, which explains why certain children eventually forgot their memories and knew were their bodies were after death.

Therefore, the central claim of buddhism does *not* stand up to scrutiny and is false!
Therefore, buddhism is FALSE!


Polytheism:
Polytheism will now be evaluated. Polytheism includes hinduism, ancient egyptian mythology and ancient greece mythology to name a few.

What is the central claim of polytheism?
The central claim is that their gods have interacted with human beings.

What is their evidence?
Their evidence are written records about the exploits of the gods.

What are the alternative explanations that can account for the data?
- One alternative explanation is that the written records were written in the genre of mythology, which is when something is written in the distant past *without* a specific time and space. Therefore, the document is NOT historical.
- Another alternative explanation is that the supernatural events in the written records are legendary developments. The written records were written down several centuries *after* the alleged events transpired. Therefore, the events are legendary.
- Another alternative explanation is that since the polytheistic gods are *internal* of time and space, the gods were used as replacements for natural phenomena. For example, Zeus was used to explain lightning. In light of scientific revolution by Isaac Newton, Johannes Kepler and Robert Doyle among others, the explanatory power of the polytheistic gods became negligible.

Therefore, the central claim of polytheism does *not* stand up to scrutiny and is false!
Therefore, polytheism is FALSE!

Islam:
Islam will now be evaluated.

What is the central claim of islam?
The central claim is that Mohammed acquried the Quran from an angel, which stated that Jesus was a prophet and Jesus did NOT die on the cross, among other things.

What is the evidence for this claim?
The evidence is the written record named the Quran.

What are the alternative explanations?
- The Quran was written in the 7th century, which are several centuries *after* the life of Jesus and is a time when the eyewitnesses of Jesus were *absent*. Therefore, the Quran is *not* historically reliable when it comes to the life of Jesus.
- The Quran contradicts the earlier non-biblical sources and the New Testament. The roman historians Tacitus, Lucian and Josephus, and the New Testament all claim that Jesus claimed to be god incarnate. The New Testament records that Jesus did die on the cross, which is the scholarly concensus.

Therefore, the central claim of islam does *not* stand up to scrutiny and is false!
Therefore, islam is FALSE!

Mormonism (LDS):
Mormonism will now be evaluated. Mormonism is also known as LDS, which stands for Latter-day saints.

What is the central claim of mormonism?
The central claim is that Joseph Smith acquired the golden plates from an angel, which gave credence to the Book of Mormon.

What is the evidence?
The evidence is Joseph Smith´s spiritual experience with the golden plates.

What are the alternative explanations?
- One alternative explanation is that it is a conspiracy theory. People only make conspiracy theories, if they acquire a reward for it, such as sex, power or money. Joseph Smith did acquire money, sex and power as a consequence of the golden plates during his lifetime. Therefore, it gives credence to the fact that the golden plates may have been a conspiracy theory.
- The other alleged eyewitnesses to the event, did recant. They changed the story from being about physical plates to spiritual plates. The recantation is documented. Below is a quotation.
According to the former mormon Stephen Burnett´s letter from 1838, he claims the following: ”when I came to hear that Marin Harris state in public that he never saw the plates ith his natural eye, only in vision or imagination, neither Oliver nor David … the last pedestal gave way, in my view our foundations” (Retrieved from Brodie Revisited: A Reappraisal by Marvin S. Hill). This is a documented recantation.

Therefore, the central claim of mormonism does *not* stand up to scrutiny and is false!
Therefore, mormonism is FALSE!

Christianity:
Christianity will now be evaluated.

What is the central claim of Christianity?
The central claim is that Jesus was resurrected on the third day, after being crucified by Pontius Pilate. This vindicated his Lordship via the messianic prophecy in the Old Testament, as seen in Psalm 16:8-11 and Psalm 22.

What is the evidence?
The evidence are the non-biblical sources and the anthology called the New Testament. The New Testament includes historical documents and was written the same century as the events transpired.

The following are the 5 facts that are accepted by most non-religous and jewish scholars:
One – Jesus was crucified by Pontius Pilate and placed in a tomb.
Two – Afterwards, the tomb was empty.
Three – Jesus was resurrected, is what the skeptics proclaimed.
Four – The skeptical apostles endured violence for their proclamations.
Five – The skeptical apostles were martyred for their proclamation.

Question – What is the difference between muslim martyrdom and the apostles´ martyrdoms?
The difference is that a muslim only gets martyred for his theology, while the apostles got martyred for their *eyewitness testimonies* – something they saw with their own two eyes. This increases the veracity of apostles´ claims, especially since James (the brother of Jesus) only became a follower *after* the crucifixion (NOT before).

The following are quotations from scholars:
- According to the scholar Gary Habermas, ”Of these scholars, approximately 75 per cent favor one or more of these arguments for the empty tomb”
(Gary Habermas, Resurrection research from 1975 to the present: What are critical scholars saying?, p. 141).
- According to the scholar Michael Licona, ”Given the strong evidence for Jesus’ crucifixion, without good evidence to the contrary the historian must conclude that the process killed him. This is the conclusion shared by virtually all scholars who have studied the subject.” (Michael Licona, The Resurrection of Jesus: A New Historiographical Approach).
- According to the scholar D. H. Van Daleen, ”it would be *extremely* difficult to object to the grave story on purely historical grounds. Even if we assumed that it served the purpose of checking an incipient grave cult, that would *not* explain how the story arose in the first place”
(Retrieved from William Lane Craig, The Son Rises: Historical Evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus, p. 84-85).
- According to the scholar Michael Grant, ”the historian ... cannot justifiably deny the empty tomb because if we apply the same historical criteria that we use elsewhere, then the evidence is firm and plausible enough to necessitate the conclusion that the tomb was indeed found *empty*” (Michael Grant, Jesus: An Historian’s Review of the Gospels , New York: Macmillan Publishing Co., 1992, p. 176).
- According to the scholar Jacob Kremer, ”by far most scholars hold firmly to the reliability of the biblical statements about the empty tomb” (Jacob Kremer, Die Osterevangelien--Geschichten um Geschichte, p. 49-50).
- According to the scholar Gerd Ludemann, ”it may be taken as historically certain that Peter and the disciples had experiences after Jesus’ death in which Jesus appeared to them as the risen Christ” (Retrieved from Gary Habermas, The case for the resurrection of Jesus).

Scholars accept the 5 facts, because of the following reasons:
1. The gospels are corroborated by non-biblical sources.
2. The gospels have a large quantity of manuscripts in the original language, which means that it is easy to identify and mend discrepancies in transmission.
3. The surrounding jewish culture did NOT have a predisposition in favor of Jesus. The skeptic James (the brother of Jesus) thought Jesus was insane when Jesus was alive and only became a follower *after* the crucifixion.
4. The gospels were written down early after the events transpired, by the standard of ancient history.
5. The gospels were written in genre of greco-roman historical biography. Historical fiction did NOT exist in the roman empire, with the exception of romance narratives and narratives about non-contemporary characters. Since the gospels *do* include contemporary characters, the genre is greco-roman historical biography.
6. The gospels depict the surrounding geography accurately.
7. The gospels have undesigned coincidences.
8. The gospels include embarassing passages (e.g. denial and hiding) that would undermine their own credibility to a 1st century audience. This means that the writer had sincerity and transparency. This is known as the criterion of embarassment. The criterion of embarassment is also used in for example ancient egyptian studies, Confucian studies and ancient assyrian studies to name a few. (Edit: For example, the criterion of embarassment is also used for Teaching of Merikare. Merikare was an ancient egyptian pharao who claimed that his father Meryibre admitted defeat. Defeat was an embarassing thing, during that time, that would undermine his own credibility to his contemporary audience. You would NOT fabricate a defeat, since a defeat made you look bad in the eyes of your contemporaries. This is used to argue for the legitemacy of Meryibre. )

There are several hypothesis that attempt to account for the facts above. Each hypothesis will now be evaluated.
One – the swoon theory. The swoon theory states that Jesus only fainted on the cross and did not actually die.
The swoon theory is *false* , because crucifixions are lethal. It is *impossible* to survive a crucifixion. Jesus was *dead*. In John 19:33-34, after the heart of Jesus was pierced by a spear ”immediately blood and water flowed out”. When blood and water flow out from the heart, a person is dead.

Two – the twin theory. The twin theory states that a twin was crucified in place of Jesus. It is mainly advocated by muslims.
The twin-theory is *false*, since the crucifixion of Jesus is mentioned by Josephus, Tacitus, the Talmud, Lucian and the New Testament to name a few.

Three – the mass hallucination-hypothesis. The mass hallucination-hypothesis states that the apostles acquired a mass hallucination.
The mass-hallucination hypothesis is *false*, since hallucinations are unique to individuals. Hallucinations can *not* be seen in a large a group. The psychological data does *not* support that. In addition, it is *not* possible to touch a hallucination. Additionally, if it was a mass-hallucination, then the body should have been in the tomb. Since the tomb was *empty*, the mass-hallucination hypothesis is *unable* to account for this fact.

Four – the theft-hypothesis. The theft-hypothesis states that the apostles stole the body.
The theft-hypothesis is *false* , since the apostles do *not* have a motive for stealing the body. They had already denied Jesus when he was *alive*. After the crucifixion, the apostles thought that Jesus was an imposter. (Edit: Additionally, the theft-hypothesis does NOT explain why the skeptic James became converted. An empty tomb itself would NOT convert a skeptic. That would just be an empty tomb.)

Five – the legendary-hypothesis. The legendary hypothesis states that the resurrection is a legendary developement and a later construction.
The legendary-hypothesis is *false*, since the New Testament was written in the *1st century*, which is the *same* century as the events transpired. Something is only legendary, if it gets written *more* than one century *after* the event transpired. Therefore, the resurrection is *not* legendary.

Six – the conspiracy theory-hypothesis. The conspiracy theory hypothesis states that the apostles made up the resurrection.
The conspiracy theory-hypothesis is *false*, since the apostles did *NOT* acquire compensation for spreading the message. They acquired the *opposite*, namely persecution and death from the jews and the romans. For example, the apostle Paul had power when he was a jew and then *lost* power when he became a Christian. Therefore, the apostle Paul does *not* have an ulterior motive. (Edit: Additionally, the skeptic James - the brother of Jesus - already thought Jesus was insane (!) when Jesus was alive and only became a follower *after* the crucifixion. Thus, the skeptic James does *not* have an ulterior motive. The martyrdom of James is recorded by Josephus. The scholarly concensus is that the apostles were sincere about the resurrection, since they were willing to die for it.)

Seven – mass-grave hypothesis. The mass-grave hypothesis claims that Jesus was placed in a mass-grave.
The mass-grave hypothesis is *false*, since crucifixion-victism were buried in *tombs* in Judea. We have *archeological evidence* of crucifixion-victims being buried in tombs in Judea.

Eight – the resurrection-hypothesis. The resurrection-hypothesis states that Jesus was resurrected – for real.
The resurrection-hypothesis is TRUE, since it is the only hypothesis that adequately explains all of the facts above. Since Jesus really did rise from the dead, we can trust what Jesus said - including what he said about the authority of the Bible.

In light of the historical evidence, the *jewish* scholar Pinchas Lapide stated that ”If the defeated and depressed group of disciples overnight could change into a victorious movement of faith ... without a fundamental faith experience — then this would be a much greater miracle than the resurrection itself.” (Pinchas Lapide, The Resurrection of Jesus: A Jewish Perspective, p. 126).

Lapide stated that the *only* explanation is that the resurrection happened – for real.
”I accept the resurrection of Easter Sunday ... as a historical event”.

According to the former atheist philosopher Antony Flew, ”The evidence for the resurrection is better than for claimed miracles in any other religion. It’s outstandingly different in quality and quantity” (Antony Flew, My Pilgrimage from Atheism to Theism: An Exclusive Interview with Former British Atheist Professor Antony Flew).

Since (1) the central claim of Christianity stands up to scrutiny, (2) Christianity is the only religion where the miracle has *greater* explanatory power than the proposed alternative explanations and (3) the resurrection of Jesus is the miracle that has the highest amount of evidence, Christianity has the highest epistemic probability and should therefore be selected.

Christianity is TRUE.
___________________________________
Edit:
The following is a selection of the non-biblical documents mentioning Jesus or his movement:
a) Celsus, Talmud, Josephus and ex-polytheist Justin Martyr accepted that Jesus performed miracles.
b) Josephus and Lucian indicate that Jesus was wise.
c) Pliny, Talmud and Lucian indicate that Jesus was a powerful and revered teacher.
d) Tacitus, Josephus, Talmud and Lucian all mention that Jesus was crucified.
e) Tacitus and Josephus state that the crucifixion occurred under Pontius Pilate.
f) Talmud states that the crucifixion happened on Passover.
g) Celsus and Josephus write that Jesus was known as the Messiah and God incarnate.
h) Pliny and Lucian indicate that Christians worshiped Jesus as a god.
i) Mara bar Serapion suggests that calamity came about in part as a result of the execution of the Wise King of the Jews, which means Jesus.
j) Phlegon indicates, with Thallus indicating something similar, that there was a solar eclipse during the full moon, which was accompanied by earthquakes
during the reign of the emperor who was in power from 14 to 37 AD.
k) Both Tacitus and Suetonius indicate that Christians were punished by the emperor who was in power from 54 to 68 AD.
l) The former polytheists Justin Martyr and Tertullian state that the Jews baselessly accused the apostles of stealing the body into the 2nd century. This means
that the Jews knew that Jesus was dead and that the tomb was empty.
m) Josephus wrote that James and John became martyrs.
n) The Pilate-stone mentions Pontius Pilate, which is an archeological evidence.

_____________________________
Edit:
I have now made this decision tree, which hopefully will make things more understandable.
Image


For more information about why Jesus is the jewish messiah, please consult this article:
https://jewsforjesus.org/learn/top-40-m ... rophecies/



Note:
Since the resurrection is the miracle with the highest amount of evidence, Christianity has the highest probability.

If anyone thinks any other miracle has the highest amount of evidence, such as the Miracle of Calanda, I would be interested to hear your case. Send me a PM. :hap:
Last edited by Rock_TBT on Mon May 01, 2023 7:53 am, edited 27 times in total.
Adsolution
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Re: Religion – your views

Post by Adsolution »

Rock_TBT wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:26 pmTherefore, the central claim of buddhism does *not* stand up to scrutiny and is false!
Therefore, buddhism is FALSE!
That's not how logic works. A lack of evidence for something being true isn't proof that it's false, it in fact proves absolutely nothing one way or the other.
Rock_TBT wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:26 pmThe gospels include embarassing passages (e.g. denial and hiding) that would undermine their own credibility to a 1st century audience. This means that the writer had sincerity and transparency. This is known as the criterion of embarassment. The criterion of embarassment is also used in for example ancient egyptian studies, Confucian studies and ancient assyrian studies to name a few.
I've never seen any value in the criterion of embarrassment because it assumes the author is either a very naïve narcissist or so daft they'd never thought about it themselves. Just make up some embarrassing details - I've been doing this to get out of trouble since I was like nine.

This criterion is usually only ever invoked to such a serious degree when it comes to religious studies, especially when trying to prove the notion that Jesus was resurrected, which lends it little credibility.
Rock_TBT wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:26 pmTwo – the twin theory. The twin theory states that a twin was crucified in place of Jesus. It is mainly advocated by muslims.
The twin-theory is *false*, since the crucifixion of Jesus is mentioned by Josephus, Tacitus, the Talmud, Lucian and the New Testament to name a few.
Multiple people testifying to Jesus' crucifixion having taken place doesn't really increase the likelihood of it not being an imposter. I don't necessarily believe this theory, but it's not out of the realms of possibility.
Rock_TBT wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:26 pmFour – the theft-hypothesis. The theft-hypothesis states that the apostles stole the body.
The theft-hypothesis is *false* , since the apostles do *not* have a motive for stealing the body. They had already denied Jesus when he was *alive*. After the crucifixion, the apostles thought that Jesus was an imposter.
I don't know, I find the idea one of them had undisclosed motives a heck of a lot more likely than it being a literal miracle. Jesus is a relatively weak example, why use it when there are thousands of missing person/body reports from the last few decades that are far more confounding?
Rock_TBT wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:26 pmChristianity has the highest epistemic probability and should therefore be selected.
Christianity is TRUE.
You don't determine if something is true by determining that 4 other unrelated things are false. You listed 5 arbitrary mainstream religions out of the thousands of spiritual belief systems throughout the world (you didn't even compare other huge ones like Judaism or Hinduism), find one to be more persuasive than the other 4, and just based off that deem it to be factually true. At this point I could literally just claim Kao 1 is the best platformer in the world because it's slightly better than Bubsy 3D.
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Re: Religion – your views

Post by Hunchman801 »

I must agree with Ad that the logic is far from flawless, though I do appreciate the effort in collecting as much evidence as possible in all cases.
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Re: Religion – your views

Post by Adsolution »

Indeed, it was easy to respond to and I appreciate the effort as well!
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Re: Religion – your views

Post by Rock_TBT »

Why do world-famous scholars accept god?
(Video-form: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EqfAOi ... 9Brdk/view )

You might have heard the claim that there is no evidence for god.
This is a *false* statement.
Any person who holds to a metaphysical position, has some sort of evidence.
The evidence might be philosophical, mathematical or empirical.

In this presentation, the intellectual journeys of Albert Einstein, Jean-Paul Sartre, Albert Camus, Fred Hoyle, Antony Flew, and Alasdair MacIntyre pertaining to the evidence of god, will be outlined.

Einstein:
Albert Einstein´s journey will now be outlined.

Albert Einstein was a world-famous theoretical physicist, who became heralded as a genius for his General Theory of Relativity. Einstein was awarded the nobel-prize in physics especially for discovering the law of the photoelectric effect.

At the beginning of his career, Einstein was an atheist materialist. During Einstein´s time in the early 20th century, the status-quo was that the universe was eternal and time was infinite, which was referred as the steady-state model.

When Einstein developed the General Theory of Relativity, the theory - along with the cosmological findings during the middle of the 20th century - pointed towards the fact that the universe had a definite beginning and that time was finite.

This made Einstein very uncomfortable, since that fact would challenge the status quo at the time. To avoid this conclusion and the metaphysical implications of his cosmological findings, Einstein desperately invented a fudge-factor in his calculations. When the Christian astronomer George Lemaitre corrected Einstein´s calculations, the fudge-factor was shown to be bogus. The universe did in fact have a beginning - for real.

The evidence that changed the scholarly concensus to accept the beginning of the universe included (1) the cosmic background radiation, (2) the red-shift´s indication of the universe´s expansion via the Doppler effect, (3) the second law of thermodynamics, (4) the equation of general relativity, (5) the equation of special relativity and (6) the Borde–Guth–Vilenkin theorem.

The secular scholar Alexander Vilenkin stated the following:
“With the proof now in place, cosmologists can no longer hide behind the possibility of a past-eternal universe. There is no escape: they have to face the problem of a cosmic beginning.” (Vilenkin, Many Worlds in One, p.176, emphasis added)

Einstein would later admit that the fudge-factor was his greatest mistake.
Einstein said the following:
“The cosmological constant is the the greatest stupidity of my life.” (Retrieved from Eric Metaxas, Is atheism dead?).

Einstein later conceded that the universe had a beginning and that the universe needed a *transcendent* cause *external* of time and space.

Einstein said the following:
“The more I study science, the more I believe in God.”
–Albert Einstein
(Retrieved from Jim Holt, Science Resurrects God, The Wall Street Journal, Dec 24, 1997 )

The great Albert Einstein had accepted god.

Sartre:
Jean-Paul Sartre´s journey will now be outlined.

Jean-Paul Sartre was a world-famous atheistic existentialist philosopher and was a Marxist. He supported the regimes of Stalin and Castro. Sartre acquired the nobel prize in literature.

The grounding of objective values haunted Sartre his entire life, where he in a stroke of honesty admitted that “if God does not exist, we find no values or commands to turn to which legitimize our conduct." – Jean Paul Sartre (Sartre, Existentialism and Human Emotions, emphasis added).

The problem of evil has a prerequisite. The prerequisite for the problem of evil is that there is an external morality. An external morality is a term that is used to denote that moral judgements can be applied to other human beings. A few examples of such moral judgements include genocide, murder and rape. The existence of evil must be part of the external world and some things must be *actually* wicked in themselves, in order for the problem of evil to emerge in the first plate. Hence, the problem of evil gives evidence for moral realism and moral laws. And a moral law implies a moral-lawgiver, namely god.


External morality -> Problem of evil -> Moral realism -> Moral laws -> God (moral law-giver)


Note – A moral ontology is referred to here, NOT moral epistemology. The procedure in which morality was developed, does NOT explain why morality itself exists in the first place. To use an analogy, the process in which a building is constructed, does NOT explain *why* a building was constructed in the first place.

Using this basis, the philosopher Yujin Nagasawa has developed “The problem of evil ... for atheists” (Nagasawa, The problem of evil for atheists, emphasis added).

Additionally, the secular philosopher J.L Mackie did concede that the problem of evil is *unable* to ontologically disprove god, since god may in principle have a morally sufficient reason for allowing suffering.

J.L. Mackie said the following:
"[W]e can concede that the problem of evil does not, after all, show that the central doctrines of theism are logically inconsistent with one another" - J.L. Mackie (Mackie, The Miracle of Theism, p.154, emphasis added)

Sartre later admitted that a moral ontology to ground an external morality, could only be achieved in a transcendent being.

Sartre said the following:
“I don’t feel I am the product of Chance ... but someone who was expected, prepared, prefigured. In short, a being that could be here thanks only to a Creator. And this idea about a creator is referring to God” – Jean-Paul Sartre (Retrieved from Eric Metaxas, Is atheism dead?, emphasis added)

The great Jean-Paul Sartre had accepted god.

Camus:
Albert Camus´s journey will now be outlined.

Albert Camus was a world-famous atheistic existentialist philosopher and novelist, who acquired the nobel-prize in literature.

Camus realized that since human beings are meaning-seeking creatures, there must be real meaning out-there in the world.
Since human beings are storytelling-creatures, there must be a grand storyteller and a grand narrative, which can be sufficiently grounded in Christianity.

Camus later said the following:
“I am ready. I want this. This [Christianity] is what I want to commit my life to.” (Retrieved from Eric Metaxas, Is atheism dead?)

Camus wanted to get baptized.

The great Albert Camus had accepted god.

Hoyle:
Fred Hoyle´s journey will now be outlined.

Fred Hoyle was a world-famous scientist and an atheistic materialist, where he staunchly defended the steady-state model.

The evidence pertaining to fine-tuning, caused him to accept a designer of the universe.

The following is a quote by Hoyle:
“A common-sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a super intellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature.” (Hoyle, The universe: Past and Present Reflections, emphasis added)

The following is another quote by Hoyle:
“if one proceeds directly and straightforwardly in this matter without being deflected by a fear ... one arrives at the conclusion that biomaterials with their amazing measure of order must be the outcome of intelligent design" (Hoyle, Evolution from Space, emphasis added).

The great Fred Hoyle had accepted god.

Flew:
Antony Flew´s journey will now be outlined.

Antony Flew was a world-famous atheist philosopher for 50 years, who fiercely debated Christians. As an undergraduate, he criticized the atheist-turned-Christian philosopher C.S. Lewis in the Socratic Club, where one of his essays ended up becoming the most widely reprinted philosophical publication of the previous fifty years.

After being the world´s leading atheist philosopher for 50 years, Flew came to the conclusion that there was a designer of the universe, from the empirical findings surrounding (1) the origin of fine-tuning, (2) the origin of DNA´s information and (3) the necessity of a transcendent cause to the beginning of the universe. Flew explained that the, then recent, scientific evidence showed there was insufficient time for life to come into being from non-life.

Flew said the following:
“I now believe there is a God ... I now think it [the evidence] does point to a creative Intelligence almost entirely because of the DNA investigations." - Antony Flew (Flew, There Is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind, emphasis added)

Flew also said that “The evidence for the resurrection is better than for claimed miracles in any other religion. It’s outstandingly different in quality and quantity.” (Flew, My Pilgrame From Atheism to Theism: An Exclusive Interview With Former Brittish Atheist Antony Flew, emphasis added)

The great Antony Flew had accepted god.

MacIntyre:
Alasdair MacIntyre´s journey will now be outlined.

Alasdair MacIntyre was a world-famous atheist philosopher and a committed Marxist, where he was a member of the Communist Party of Great Britain.

In the process of attempting to disprove Thomas Aquina´s philosophy, Thomism, MacIntyre became a Christian theist, where MacIntyre realized that a moral ontology could only sufficiently be grounded in theism.

MacIntyre said that he acquired “an Augustinian Thomist approach to moral philosophy” (Solomon, David. Lecture 9: After Virtue. Twentieth-century ethics. International Catholic University.)

The great Alasdair MacIntyre had accepted god.

In conclusion, men who accepted the implications of their scientific and philosophical findings came to accept the existence of a creator of the universe, namely god.



_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Below is a simplified decision tree.
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For more information about why Jesus is the jewish messiah, consult the article below:
https://jewsforjesus.org/learn/top-40-m ... rophecies/
Flat Earth Society
Ray Noir & Blanc
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:10 pm
Location: On the flat earth …
Tings: 925030

Re: Religion – your views

Post by Flat Earth Society »

Please, donate some Tings for my yeshivah to pay tribute to Baba Salé. :proud:
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