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Dark Rayman & Bad Rayman
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:08 am
by spiraldoor
Most people seem to think that Dark Rayman and Bad Rayman aren't the same, but really, I don't see why this is. First of all, why would Rayman have two different evil clones? It just seems a really weird choice for the developers to make. Does that mean that there'd be a Dark Bad Rayman as well? And don't tell me that one's name is "Bad Rayman" and the other's is "Dark Rayman", because in Rayman Junior, the evil clone who follows you is referred to as the "Wicked Double" repeatedly by Betilla. And don't tell me that Bad Rayman is dead and Dark Rayman is another character, because in Rayman Junior and Rayman Designer he can die and be re-summoned repeatedly by Mister Dark. And look at the them:
They have similar colours, glowing eyes and the biggest difference is the clothes he's wearing. Judging by the colours, Bad Rayman is darker than Dark Rayman. And in Rayman Advance, at the start of Mr Dark's Dare part 2 it actually says "Beware of Dark Rayman", and I mean how much more specific can you get?
I know, he behaves differently in Arena...but so do all the other characters! And I'm trying to think of why Rayman would have multiple different evil clones, but I just can't. Does anyone else share my opinions?
Re: Dark Rayman & Bad Rayman
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:45 am
by Xenon
Contrary to what you think, they look totally different. Examine the colour used for each part of Rayman's body, then compare it with the other. No colours match. And as if that weren't enough, the two have completely different facial figurements and hair (and shoes actually), so as far as looks go the two are different.
As far character, well, I don't know a lot about Bad Rayman but if I'm not talking bull his mission is to find and kill normal Rayman, whereas Dark Rayman is merely a skin for Rayman in Arena, and doesn't hold any evil traits.
Re: Dark Rayman & Bad Rayman
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:00 pm
by stan423321
My opinion is they aren't the same, just like Silver Sonic isn't same as Metal Sonic or Mecha Sonic. Anyway, I still call both "Dark Raymans".
Re: Dark Rayman & Bad Rayman
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:08 pm
by Droolie
Xenon wrote:And as if that weren't enough, the two have completely different facial figurements and hair (and shoes actually), so as far as looks go the two are different.
As far character, well, I don't know a lot about Bad Rayman but if I'm not talking bull his mission is to find and kill normal Rayman, whereas Dark Rayman is merely a skin for Rayman in Arena, and doesn't hold any evil traits.
I disagree with everything in this quote.
For example, didn't Rayman himself change? He has a different look in almost every game. So why wouldn't Bad/Dark Rayman change?
Also, Dark Rayman is very fast in races and very good at battles in Rayman Arena. That isn't evil, of course, but he doesn't play by the rules: he mirrors your screen in the race levels, so where you normally had to go left, you have to go right. He IS evil.
Still, I agree that they aren't the same, but, both clones should be called Dark Rayman.
Besides, Dark Rayman is mentioned in Rayman Advance, and I don't know where anyone got the name "Bad Rayman" from.
Re: Dark Rayman & Bad Rayman
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:11 pm
by stan423321
Who knows is Dark Rayman good or bad actually...
...err, do I smell Rayman 4?
Re: Dark Rayman & Bad Rayman
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:16 pm
by Droolie
Why would you smell Rayman 4? XD
Re: Dark Rayman & Bad Rayman
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:33 pm
by stan423321
Well, a lot of people believed the "Rayman's grandest enemy", so why wouldn't it be Ray's clone?
Re: Dark Rayman & Bad Rayman
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:25 pm
by El Dango
Drolpiraat wrote:Why would you smell Rayman 4? XD
Because it stinks lol.
Anyways, the Dark Rayman from Rayman Arena is just a costume, so i don't think he even counts as a character.
Re: Dark Rayman & Bad Rayman
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:34 pm
by Droolie
El Dango wrote:Drolpiraat wrote:Why would you smell Rayman 4? XD
Because it stinks lol.
Anyways, the Dark Rayman from Rayman Arena is just a costume, so i don't think he even counts as a character.
He does, because they don't name him Rayman in Rayman Arena, but Dark Rayman. Different name, different character.
Re: Dark Rayman & Bad Rayman
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:51 pm
by Cairnie
The Bad Rayman name came from the manual in Rayman Junior.
Re: Dark Rayman & Bad Rayman
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:06 pm
by Hunchman801
Just to clear up things, Bad Rayman is a spell and Dark Rayman is a skin. I just don't see how they could be the same character (provided you can even consider them as real characters).
As concerns the name “Bad Rayman”, I'm pretty sure it was used in Rayman Junior (depends on the versions) and Rayman Designer. He was actually called “Dark Rayman” in Rayman Advance, but I tend to privilege the oldest references, and we have to keep in mind that Rayman Advance was developed by Digital Eclipse, not by UbiSoft.
Also, I'd like to remind you all that this is not a topic to discuss the “coolness” of the different names. Because people think a name sounds lame isn't a reason to change it.
Re: Dark Rayman & Bad Rayman
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:08 pm
by foultzboyz
You might be right, and there'd almost be no questioning if Rayman Advance didn't call him Dark Rayman. The interesting thought that that creates is 1) Bad Rayman is referred to as Dark Rayman before the supposed "debut" of this other Dark Rayman, 2) development teams will always supervise these projects closely to make sure that everything seems correct, and 3) the both of them are evil doppelgangers to Rayman. Dark Rayman may have been grouped with Rayman because the character model itself is the same, and as such, literally means Dark Rayman is a reskinned model of Rayman, though I thought Rayman Arena often treated Dark Rayman like his own character. I'm still not 100% sure myself, because both are act as doppelgangers (because the games treat them both like individual characters--Rayman Arena wouldn't have an entire third of the challenges made up so you could challenge a skin), though both are completely different in most every other way.
Re: Dark Rayman & Bad Rayman
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:40 pm
by stan423321
In case of Rayman Arena's Dark Rayman... I thound it a bit too bright compared to the older design. But he's still interesting.
foultzboyz wrote:You might be right, and there'd almost be no questioning if Rayman Advance didn't call him Dark Rayman.
Well, there would be some. Almost all resources I saw referred to Dark Rayman, and making another character called this way was "breaking de facto standard". Really. I saw a lot of walkthroughs, and everybody who saw thingy which looks like Rayman but is dark called it Dark Rayman for obvious reasons.
Actually, why the page shouldn't be split in way "Dark Rayman (R1 etc.)" and "Dark Rayman (RA)"?
Re: Dark Rayman & Bad Rayman
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:25 pm
by Hunchman801
stan423321 wrote:Actually, why the page shouldn't be split in way "Dark Rayman (R1 etc.)" and "Dark Rayman (RA)"?
The most logical solution would be to mention that Bad Rayman is actually called Dark Rayman in the GBA version, despite the previous official references.
Re: Dark Rayman & Bad Rayman
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:53 pm
by stan423321
Oh well, this obviously depends on reference. But it seems like you're right...
Re: Dark Rayman & Bad Rayman
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:30 pm
by Hunchman801
I guess we all agree on the fact that the whole thing hardly makes sense ^^
Re: Dark Rayman & Bad Rayman
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:11 pm
by stan423321
Are you referring to your post or what?!
<logging off>
Re: Dark Rayman & Bad Rayman
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:38 pm
by spiraldoor
Hunchman801 wrote:Just to clear up things, Bad Rayman is a spell and Dark Rayman is a skin. I just don't see how they could be the same character (provided you can even consider them as real characters).
Ah, but if neither of them truly exist, there is no reason why they can't be the same
Anyway, I don't think the one you call "Bad Rayman" is merely a spell. If he's no more than a spell created to destroy Rayman, why does he look like him? Wouldn't it be better for Mr Dark to not bother giving him an appearance, so that Rayman wouldn't know what hit him until it was too late?
And the Dark Rayman of Rayman Arena is more than a skin. See Drol's post above for more info...
Hunchman801 wrote:As concerns the name “Bad Rayman”, I'm pretty sure it was used in Rayman Junior (depends on the versions) and Rayman Designer. He was actually called “Dark Rayman” in Rayman Advance, but I tend to privilege the oldest references, and we have to keep in mind that Rayman Advance was developed by Digital Eclipse, not by UbiSoft.
Wouldn't the oldest references be
less accurate? You yourself say that they "adapted" "Bzzit"'s design to 3D, in other words they revised a character that had previously appeared (and to a much greater extent to this supposed difference between Dark and "Bad" Rayman...)
Re: Dark Rayman & Bad Rayman
Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:06 am
by Holy Crap
The two are simply too different to be the same.
And how can you say the one in R1 isn't just a spell? You see the spell being cast.
Re: Dark Rayman & Bad Rayman
Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:39 pm
by spiraldoor
spiraldoor wrote:Anyway, I don't think the one you call "Bad Rayman" is merely a spell. If he's no more than a spell created to destroy Rayman, why does he look like him? Wouldn't it be better for Mr Dark to not bother giving him an appearance, so that Rayman wouldn't know what hit him until it was too late?