Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

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kooz
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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by kooz »

Look like files you sent me are very close to bit perfect. But your V3.1 rip gathered from your previously posted link:
https://mega.nz/#!dZ1hXDiD!8rBQhyPtLPjI ... QQOqs0VEiQ
Is different from both files you provided me just now.

Did you newly record it?
No. But I'm glad to see you noticed that. I trimmed the first few samples so the two sources would be aligned. The output from the new tool may be truncating a bit off the beginning. I noticed this while just previewing and skipping from track to track in foobar as well. An audible click/pop at the beginning. I am not at home currently to verify, but I'm willing to bet many of these are starting from a non-zero sample value and that would lead me to believe they're slightly truncated.
Yeah. Especially seing that noise above 16kHz...
...
... It's just an effect of various plugins with the same settings.
I'm sorry but this is just getting so frustrating... Everything you've said within this block of text is either wrong, unfounded, or irrelevant. What's important here is that both files are identical (up until the last 682 bytes, as previously mentioned) - not just in waveform shape or spectral analysis, but on a binary level. It is literally impossible for them to be sonically different, different in volume... different in ANY way. Sample for sample they are exactly the same.
PS. Long time ago you asked about missing R2 Top of The World track. It's done
Nice. I'll have a listen to this tonight. I didn't realize you were putting together a "best from every version" style soundtrack. I'm looking forward to it.
Source file was 16 bit, but FLAC was encoded at float 32 bit... etc.
More of your fuzzy logic that makes conversing with you difficult. ANY sample/bit rate conversion will have either no impact, or negative impact on the resulting output. No matter what - it cannot be magically reconstituted and transformed into something greater than its source. I understand that perhaps they may sound better to you, but that doesn't mean quality has actually improved. I am reminded of the "Mr. Smiley" analogy by Hunchman801 a few years ago. We're beating a dead horse here.

Having said that, Droolie's discovery of the TT DVD is just... incredible. Whether downmixed to 2.0 or listening on a nice 5.1 home theater setup, it's amazing. There are a lot of tracks too. It's unfortunate that they're not ALL there... but it's still a great collection, and without a doubt the best sounding source available for those tracks.
deton24
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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by deton24 »

In case of DVD rip conversion, feel free to check yourself all the encoding options.
Usually you should have right, and I exactly know what are you talking about, but I met with this idea in some thread about AC3 downmix/conversion, and somehow it worked. I don't usually do such things on normal files, because I know the consequences.

Despite of the fact that I don't quite understand that mentioned explain staying between this higher bit depth, there can be more things staying behind that.

In example, most DAWs changes bit depth to 24 or 32, immediately after file import. Generally working on higher bit depth leaves more room for changes in mix, hence that's how usually music producers works.

In fact, for this files I needed to make changes in a mix - by downmix. All channel levels normally can be managed separately in such situation, though I used automated plugin which could just worked more efficiently in higher bit depth.

In the end, quality makes me just happy especially because normal 16 bit conversion apparently lacked something from the very beginning. High tones were a bit bland and separation was worse.

In case of the comparison.
Sorry, but whatever your analysis took, you must have made something wrong. Spek never lies, and I see no point in denying the noise in the sample of your 3.1 rip.

And also please verify again your testing samples, since maybe unconsciously, you were misleading providing completely different samples than on your 3.1 rip.

Thank you.
Droolie
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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by Droolie »

deton24, I think you might have the wrong files somehow? I downloaded the 3.1 rip from the link in your useful TT soundtrack rips index post earlier and looked at the files with Spek. I did not see any noise like what you showed in this gif though, and I think if that was there we would definitely have noticed it when kooz posted it!

Did you try to redownload the rip? (I noticed you linked to the 3.0 version earlier, rather than the 3.1 version)
Also, are you sure you didn't unknowingly apply any audio enhancements when saving the segment you analyzed in Spek?

As for the DVD rip conversion, thanks! I'll check it out when I have some time to work on RayTunes a bit.
deton24
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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by deton24 »

Thanks for your reply.

Damn. You're right with that noise. It was created during trimming, after exporting in Audacity. Sorry for that.
Still, it doesn't resolve the problem of higher volume of shared 3.1 rip than in CTPAX-X files, which also has an influence on sound quality.

Maybe it's due to non-standard Audacity import setting to 16 bit as kooz wanted.
Once I even contacted with Audacity stuff, when Raw Data import with 24 bit setting was buggy, and they replied me that Audacity works intentionally by default in 32 bit, and to use that default. They could even have right even in this case.
But I checked, and on 32 bit setting it's still the same.
Trimmed sample in Reaper returns no such noise in Spek. Success.
I made a fresh updated installation of Audacity with settings reset, but that noise still is being generated.
I reported that issue to devs.

Received an email saying that it's dithering. It's enabled all the time by default in Audacity. It can be disabled in options. It works even when 16 bit is set in import options and source file is also 16 bit. You need to disable it manually.

3.0 has only two minor differences:
"- Corrected issue that caused the pop at the end of North Plain.
- Vegetable HQ 2 faded out too early. Now properly ends with ~15 second fade after loop repeats."

And I have proper 3.1 in the folder title, and also all file tags contain:
"Revision 3.1 (8/30/2016)"
So it looks like I have a good release version. I have also exactly the same link you provided in browser history when I downloaded it in the end of the last month.

Actually, MEGA allows to replace the file in cloud with the same file name, without actually changing previous shared link.
So if the file was updated after September, we wouldn't even know that something was changed in it (beside different checksums or modification data), but I don't judge that kooz wouldn't tell us about it.

As I mentioned In case of volume comparison, you can use ReplayGain scan in F2K separately on CTPAX-X and 3.1 trimmed sample gathered from V.3.1 OST link provided above, and it will return different values, which means that file volume and/or file content is different (if visualizations don't speak to you).
Droolie
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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by Droolie »

I was just listening to the AC3 Tonic Trouble soundtrack again, and noticed how nice it is to just listen to the channels separately.
Of course this is just due to it being, well, surround, but you can create some fun new versions of the tracks with this: I wish we had the Rayman 2 soundtrack like this.
deton24
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Re: Tonic Trouble Soundtrack

Post by deton24 »

Good work. I gonna check it.

By the way (offtopic)
Yesterday I found pretty nice AI software dedicated for separating acapella from music and vice versa. It returns instrumental and vocal track.
Doesn't work too good e.g. for metal genre.

It's called Spleeter:
https://github.com/deezer/spleeter

https://youtu.be/tgnuOSLPwMI
Pity that it cuts voice above 11kHz, but maybe it can be repaired using some saturation plugins and maybe noise filters.
Probably Magix / Soundforge Music & Audio Lab Premium would be a good start.
Instrumental track quality is also not the greatest, but it's cool piece of software anyway.
I also heard that Izotope RX 7 has similar functionality like Spleeter.
Haven't compared both yet.

edit. At least some of online versions of Spleeter have additional 16kHz cut-off switch, so apart from accuracy, quality is good enough.
I found comparison, and Izotope RX 7 performs worse.
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