A dedicated section for fangames?

[dr_st]

To continue the discussion from the Redemption thread (see post by The Jonster) , and hopefully turn it into some concrete action.

I only care about Rayman Redemption myself, but the above proposal seems to me currently the best approach that avoids the hard question of when a fangame should be considered 'worthy'.

[Greengoop]

Wow I was only just thinking about fangames, what a coincidence!

[Dumbo TV]

It is obvious that they are worthy.

[Greengoop]

Tbh I’d only play the fan dlc if they had jungle and fiesta levels bc I can’t be asked to play M&E levels again (even the skins I always go goth teensy anyway)

[Hunchman801]

It's probably worth reposting my message from the other thread here:

I must agree with DaveRattlehead that RayWiki should be solely about official material (like Bzzit ), and that drawing a line between the fangames that should covered and those that should not will likely be very subjective and problematic.

This is why, should we decide to document fan games, the best course of action would be to do it in a separate location, and to be rather permissive about which ones are notable enough to be included. After all, I doubt many people will bother documenting obscure fan games that nobody cares about!

In light of this, I believe that setting up a separate wiki dedicated to fan games is the way to go. It could be configured to link to RayWiki where relevant, and even to include RayWiki files and other media if need be, but it would live in a separate location, giving it more freedom to adjust its scope as it grows, and allowing RayWiki to stick to official content only.

Does that make sense, and are there people who would actually contribute to it?

[Greengoop]

I’d recommend just splitting the raywiki in half rather than having to add an extra unnecessary site to this place

[Hunchman801]

There isn't really a way to split a wiki in half with a clear boundary, so it's sadly not an option.

[Greengoop]

Nono I didn’t mean that I meant there could be a special area of raywiki dedicated to fangames that appears when you open it

[dr_st]

In light of this, I believe that setting up a separate wiki dedicated to fan games is the way to go. It could be configured to link to RayWiki where relevant, and even to include RayWiki files and other media if need be, but it would live in a separate location, giving it more freedom to adjust its scope as it grows, and allowing RayWiki to stick to official content only.

A separate section, like raymanpc.com/fanwiki or something along those lines would work. This would make them clearly separate. It would be great if there can be a way that the two wikis can easily link between each other (or at least the fandom wiki needs to be able to link to the official one easily, as I expect 99% of the time that's the direction the links will go).

Does that make sense, and are there people who would actually contribute to it?

Well, I brought this up, so looks like I would have to contribute at least.

[Hunchman801]

Good, looks like Rayman Saturn is interested too. I'll start thinking about the technical setup required to achieve this in the easiest and most user-friendly way. In the meantime, please keep the ideas and suggestions flowing!

[Greengoop]

Same! Can I help as well?

[Mortamon Saturn]

I do agree that it would be great to have both wikis link to each other in some way! With this, no one will have an excuse to attempt to make an article regarding fanmade content on the RayWiki when there's a link right in their face telling them to go do it elsewhere.
So far, I'm motivated for all of Ryemanni's games, and maybe also Globox Terror if it really ends up being about Rayman fangames globally and if I can find enough time to give it some articles!

Also, I wonder what we should do for games that reuse content from official games, like Redemption or ReDesigner...
Just linking to the RayWiki in that case wouldn't be that great as it would miss the data regarding anything related to the fangame, so I think we should make brand new articles on the fanwiki regarding that stuff even if it can feel kind of "redundant" with the official games' one.
Anyway, there are always enough differences in the fangames to write something different about them and that wouldn't be a straight up copy paste of the RayWiki. The new article could still contain a link to the RayWiki version for anyone looking for the actually official variation.
Though, that’s not a priority and we should probably focus on actually original stuff first from these games when we’ll be able to begin.

[vnheard]

I was thinking of making my own wiki for Scepter of Leptys down the line, with the pages for each character, location and the timeline.

[Mortamon Saturn]

That sounds interesting! I think we could have a page simply linking to your game and its wiki in that case when that'll happen (a bit like the current fangame page on the RayWiki, but with more details), as making articles on the global fangame wiki could be pretty redundant then I suppose.
That’s an extra question to consider for games that could get their own dedicated wiki.

[Hunchman801]

I think this could work with just one wiki: I suppose the main point in having separate wikis for different fan games is to clearly delimitate their respective content, but with the use of disambiguation suffixes, we could still have entirely different pages on the same wiki for entries that share the same name, such as characters present in various games. Think "Rayman (fan game #1)" and "Rayman (fan game #2)" as different pages.

Does that make sense, or am I missing something? Should some people still prefer to have entirely separate wikis for some specific games, we could certainly partner up and link where appropriate, but I don't think we'll be in a position to offer hosting and technical support for more than one main fan game wiki.

Any thoughts on this?

[Greengoop]

Is there an entirely separate wiki for the main games? It could just come under raywiki but have special wikis for bigger fangames

[dr_st]

I think this could work with just one wiki: I suppose the main point in having separate wikis for different fan games is to clearly delimitate their respective content, but with the use of disambiguation suffixes, we could still have entirely different pages on the same wiki for entries that share the same name, such as characters present in various games. Think "Rayman (fan game #1)" and "Rayman (fan game #2)" as different pages.

I agree. I think a wiki per game is really overboard. I was thinking just a separate wiki for all fan-generated content, with the ability to link between that one and Raywiki. Within each wiki, disambiguation pages work just fine.

[Mortamon Saturn]

I think we should stick with the idea of having just one global fan wiki here, but let people make their own elsewhere if that’s what they really want.
We have a rough example of that with platforms like the Terraria Mods Wiki, as it acts as both a database about mods in general and as a portal linking to dedicated wikis. Also, some of the dedicated wikis used to be only articles there but then moved on to become their own platform (like the Mod of Redemption... No, not the Rayman one ).

So another thing we could do (depending on how devs and the community want to organise that) could be to start making articles about every Rayman fangame including those planning to have their own wiki. Then, if and when they do get it, we could let them use the original articles as a base for their own and then possibly remove the originals from the global wiki (or at least mark them as a candidate for deletion or something), then adding a link to the dedicated one on the front page (and other necessary pages) for example.
There are many ways to go about this whole project, so we must really take the time to think about every factor for the best result.

It’s also definitely going to be a bit challenging to handle separate entries of the same entities like Rayman as a character. Especially when some fangames can be grouped under the same umbrella for many reasons as it can be more convenient sometimes to just have one page rather than many (like how Rayman from Redemption and ReDesigner is clearly the same entity and could just share a page with different sections).
For example, how would we refer to Rayman from Ryemanni’s fangames? "Rayman (Ryemanni)?" "Rayman (Ryemanni’s games)?" "Rayman (Redemption)"
Even in his games, there could be distinct Raymans as I don’t think Reign of Terror takes place in the same "canon" as Redemption despite the Dark Magician’s cameo and many similitudes, and the Bowling 2 and Spooky Raymansion Raymans (not counting Noseless Rayman who’s implied to be his own character as proven in the third game) could also be different incarnations.
On the other hand, absolutely unique entities like Noseless Rayman wouldn’t necessarily need any specific designation or split pages, as he’s always been the same and appears in his own series (and his Redemption/ReDesigner appearances are just easter eggs).
So we’ll have to make sure to categorise everything properly in a very comprehensive manner (using disambiguation for example as Hunch said) like how we already do for content from the official games, so it’ll be comfortable for everyone and "professional" enough.

[Greengoop]

Those are some good ideas, for each noteable wiki page we could have a references and trivia section for them

[dr_st]

So another thing we could do (depending on how devs and the community want to organise that) could be to start making articles about every Rayman fangame including those planning to have their own wiki. Then, if and when they do get it, we could let them use the original articles as a base for their own and then possibly remove the originals from the global wiki (or at least mark them as a candidate for deletion or something), then adding a link to the dedicated one on the front page (and other necessary pages) for example.

I strongly object to ever removing hypothetical content from the main wiki on RaymanPC, just because someone wants to have their own wiki. I specifically want RaymanPC to be the authoritative source for Rayman material - whether official games or fangames.

For example, how would we refer to Rayman from Ryemanni’s fangames? "Rayman (Ryemanni)?" "Rayman (Ryemanni’s games)?" "Rayman (Redemption)"

I think you are taking it a bit too far with the distinctions. Rayman is Rayman. Just like the main wiki has a single page for Rayman, with sections dedicated to his appearance in various games, so can the fangame wiki.

So we’ll have to make sure to categorise everything properly in a very comprehensive manner (using disambiguation for example as Hunch said) like how we already do for content from the official games, so it’ll be comfortable for everyone and "professional" enough.

Absolutely. When we get to specifics, we will probably end up making decisions on a case-by-case basis.

To take the two examples you brought up, I envision the fangame wiki having the following pages:

Page: Rayman (fangames)
With subsections for the various fangames. For example:
1. In Rayman Redemption/ReDesigner - Rayman is the same as in [[Rayman 1]] (link to main wiki her) and spinoffs. (mention any differences in appearance, new powers...)
2. In Spooky Raymansion and sequels...
3. etc. etc.

Page: Noseless Rayman
Noseless Rayman is an enemy appearing in... His origins are from... Cameo apperances in ...