Thoughts on the nymphs in Rayman Origins+ getting to the bottom of who actually designed them.

[icesmile]

This is more of a dual post, I want to know what your general thoughts are. I think they have been and always were disappointing, not only as characters but even in regards to the design. There is nothing to them aside from them looking sexy, typical damsels in distress that all look the same and are the butt of jokes. Don’t even get me started on rayman upskirting Betilla …


I wanted to get to the bottom of why who and how they even ended up in the game. People try to defend the decision by saying they were designed by a woman, Celine Tellier though it isn’t confirmed. I have gone out of my to ask on instagram to finally close this case and answer why and how they ended up in the game. Let’s hope we get a response.


Anyways though what are your thoughts on the nymphs? Do you like them/dislike them. Why?

[Hunchman801]

I think their designs suck. I can't believe not only that someone thought it was a good idea to include them in a Rayman game, but, more importantly, that the entire production team went along with it! Between their look and Rayman blowing up Betilla's skirt, it is both in particularly bad taste and incredibly disrespectful to the spirit of the series.

They are NSFW to the point that I wouldn't even open a RayWiki article for one of the nymphs at work for fear of looking like a pervert. Speaking of which, the wiki pages "Nymph" and "Betilla" are among the most visited on the site (if not the most). That traffic is definitely not coming from Rayman fans.

As for the gender of the person who supposedly designed them... that is entirely irrelevant. A bad design is a bad design, period. Let's see if you get an answer, though!

[RayGamer99]

When separated from their designs (trust me, I'll get to that), I honestly like the nymphs. The concept of bringing back Betilla and adding more fairies with designs that match their respective worlds to act as her sisters is a great idea, at least in my opinion. If Origins had bothered to show off more of their individual personalities, they would have easily been more welcome additions to Rayman's world. Imagine if, after freeing one of the fairies, they would show up in a few other levels of that world to tell you about some of the characters or hazards in the level.

However, like many others, I was never a fan of their designs, especially as I grew older and looked back on them. Not only are they needlessly sexualized to the point of their looks being the sole reason that most folks even care about them, but they just don't look like they belong in Rayman's world. The games have never had characters designed like that (I wouldn't want to imagine what Ly could have looked like if those weirdo designers made her look like the nymphs ) and even later games like Legends didn't go that far with Barbara and her relatives. Like Hunch said, I couldn't care less who designed them; if a design is in bad taste, it's in bad taste! Considering the fact that Betilla's subsequent appearances in Brawlhalla (betcha forgot she made a cameo in that game ) and Rayman Legends Retold give her a more sensible design, I hope that Ubisoft has learned their lesson on that one.

If, and ONLY if, they give the rest of the nymphs design changes to tone them down and bring them in line with literally every other female character in the series, then I'd be all for bringing them back in later games and seeing more of their personalities. Though hopefully they don't swing too hard in the other direction and make them all look like generic hyperrealistic fairies, like Retold did to Betilla.

[HazBlackSlick]

Speaking of which, the wiki pages "Nymph" and "Betilla" are among the most visited on the site (if not the most)

That's kinda funny ngl

[daniel careon]

I have gone out of my to ask on instagram to finally close this case and answer why and how they ended up in the game. Let’s hope we get a response.

That's a great initiative! Definitely keep us updated if you get a reply. It would be genuinely fascinating to hear the actual internal design process behind them, regardless of how we feel about the final result.

If Origins had bothered to show off more of their individual personalities, they would have easily been more welcome additions to Rayman's world.

I completely agree with this! The concept of elemental fairy sisters guarding different regions of the Glade of Dreams is fantastic for the lore. But instead, their visual style feels like it was dragged in from a completely different, weirdly NSFW flash game. When you compare them to the genuinely incredible art direction of the rest of Origins, the nymphs just stick out like a sore thumb and completely break the atmosphere.

If they wanted to fix their designs, honestly, all they had to do was go back to Betilla's original design from the 1995 game. That classic look was perfect and fit the universe flawlessly. Unfortunately, they went for that generic hyperrealistic fairy redesign in Rayman Legends Retold. Even though it's undeniably a step up from the Origins disaster, I really don't like it either. It just completely strips away that quirky, whimsical charm that classic Rayman characters are known for.

[MakaryGlobsky]

I don't think a lot about their designs, although I was always skeptical of them... They do seem kind of distasteful to put in a game that's aimed for children. I love the concept though. I wonder, how would Ly or the Ludivs ever connect to them in any way? Going back to the design, I don't think the original one would fit either. It's a bit too... Old? I don't know if that's the right word. EdgyRabbid has made a nice little redesign of her in this post: viewtopic.php?p=1545092#p1545092. I think that's how they should've approached it. Seeing people drooling over them has made me quite confused and uncomfortable

I am quite hopeful towards knowing about who actually designed them! Although, the argument that "a woman made them" never made that much sense anyway... Good initiative!

[icesmile]

However, like many others, I was never a fan of their designs, especially as I grew older and looked back on them. Not only are they needlessly sexualized to the point of their looks being the sole reason that most folks even care about them, but they just don't look like they belong in Rayman's world. The games have never had characters designed like that (I wouldn't want to imagine what Ly could have looked like if those weirdo designers made her look like the nymphs ) and even later games like Legends didn't go that far with Barbara and her relatives. Like Hunch said, I couldn't care less who designed them; if a design is in bad taste, it's in bad taste! Considering the fact that Betilla's subsequent appearances in Brawlhalla (betcha forgot she made a cameo in that game ) and Rayman Legends Retold give her a more sensible design, I hope that Ubisoft has learned their lesson on that one.

It’s funny you mention Barbara when you could argue the sisters got it worse with their panties (mind you each sister has a unique design) showing off when they are bubblized. Really not sure how to feel about it especially since I can’t imagine Barbara being any older than the age of 9 in my head thanks to that juvenile face and missing baby tooth.

Hell you could honestly make a case for the weird boob window some of the sisters have like Ursula for example, didn’t know the secret agent needed to show so much skin lol

[Hunchman801]

That's kinda funny ngl

I guess, yes. Funny and sad at the same time.

It’s funny you mention Barbara when you could argue the sisters got it worse with their panties (mind you each sister has a unique design) showing off when they are bubblized. Really not sure how to feel about it especially since I can’t imagine Barbara being any older than the age of 9 in my head thanks to that juvenile face and missing baby tooth.

I didn't even know about this! This is weird and also in very bad taste for a Rayman game, in my opinion.

[PluMGMK]

Not to defend any of the rest of it, but I feel I should point out that's not a baby tooth: she lost a tooth in battle. Otherwise, fair points!

[Rayman fan2000]

I mean... I like pretty girls.

I'm not too sure how I feel about this sort of discussion since, well, anyone is free to feel discomfort, dislike, hatred, or however they may feel toward the designs, so maybe some of what I have to say in the matter will sound rude or like an attack. Regardless, I personally like them just because I like how they look. I like their designs. Sure, they're sexy. I still like how they look, outside of just "wow, how sexy". I personally think that reducing each design to just "they're weird and sexy" is more demeaning than anything else. Also, the idea that the gender of the character designer behind them matters at all is kind of more disgusting than anything about the designs themselves could be, in my opinion. Not to sound rude, but... Is that to say that, morally, only women can design sexy women and only men can design sexy men? Just feels really... off.

Speaking personally as someone that was actually pretty young when Rayman Origins came out (like... 10-11 years old), I don't know if the designs are nearly as harmful or weird as everyone makes them out to be? I don't remember feeling much toward them outside of "they're the pretty ladies". I can definitely agree with them not feeling particularly "Rayman" but I also tend to feel that Rayman Origins/Legends don't particularly feel that "Rayman" to me compared to past entries (just my opinion), and whatever "canon" existed for Rayman was completely annihilated by the existence of this game, even before it was changed from literally being Rayman's origins. And yeah, the nymph designs get a ton of lewd fanart with exaggerated proportions and all, but well, this happens to almost any character in almost any media even if they have little to no curves at all (TADC, anyone?).

If Origins had bothered to show off more of their individual personalities, they would have easily been more welcome additions to Rayman's world.

That isn't a bad idea if we're talking something like Legends Retold where the characters will (probably) get much more of an opportunity to show off their personalities. But I also don't really think much of characters' individual personalities are really all that shown off in Rayman Origins, anyways...? Even our titular hero becomes a lobotomised feral animal, and that became his identity for over a decade. Feels about as one-note as any other character in the game is, to me. I'm not 100% sure if Origins is the right game for this argument, but that might just be me.

It’s funny you mention Barbara when you could argue the sisters got it worse with their panties (mind you each sister has a unique design) showing off when they are bubblized. Really not sure how to feel about it especially since I can’t imagine Barbara being any older than the age of 9 in my head thanks to that juvenile face and missing baby tooth.

Hell you could honestly make a case for the weird boob window some of the sisters have like Ursula for example, didn’t know the secret agent needed to show so much skin lol

I'm... not really sure what to make of this...?
It's one thing to feel weird about the panties thing. But 9 years old...? I always thought the whole point of Barbara was like, two things: 1. Clearly being a nod to Betilla, and 2. Clearly being... well... a barbarian...
You're free to have your interpretations but I'm not sure how anyone can look at a viking lady with (frankly, at least in OG Legends) big tits, a scratched-up helmet, and a big axe, and think that she's a 9 year old because of a missing tooth (Do Rayman characters even have ages?). Furthermore, I don't really think the potential of a random player's interpretation of a character's age would really factor into designing a character. And, even then, the whole bubblisation thing in general seems to have always been a comedic thing more than anything, even if it's very apparent through being on the internet that people indeed find other kinds of enjoyment in it. So I don't personally think much of the panties thing at all.

I'm not really looking to downplay anyone's discomfort or say that it's wrong for you to feel a certain way. I'm just explaining how I see it myself. Objectification of women has always been an important point of conversation in video game discussions but I just don't know if the funny nymphs in Rayman are really a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

[RayGamer99]

It’s funny you mention Barbara when you could argue the sisters got it worse with their panties (mind you each sister has a unique design) showing off when they are bubblized.

This is also weird and in bad taste, but to be fair, later games like Adventures and Mini did reverse that and make the warrior princesses' lower area one solid color.

(Estelia's sprite sheet in Rayman Mini)

Barbara and Elysia don't even have that, erm, quality when they get bubblized in OG Legends, as can be seen in their sprite sheets.

(Barbara's sprite sheet in Rayman Legends: Definitive Edition)

I don't know if they'd bother to change the nymphs' designs if they ever do return, but this at least proves that Ubisoft can learn from their perverted practices. If they can do it once, I think they can do it again!

I can’t imagine Barbara being any older than the age of 9 in my head thanks to that juvenile face and missing baby tooth.

At least to me, Barbara looks a good deal older than 9 years. I'd personally put her and Elysia in the range of 13-15 years old. As for the tooth, as PluMGMK mentioned, that seems to have been lost in battle rather than being a milk tooth.

Speaking personally as someone that was actually pretty young when Rayman Origins came out (like... 10-11 years old), I don't know if the designs are nearly as harmful or weird as everyone makes them out to be? I don't remember feeling much toward them outside of "they're the pretty ladies".

It's worth mentioning that the Rayman games are targeted towards all ages, including younger kids. I have a feeling that parents would have a very different opinion of the nymphs than "they're the pretty ladies" if their child saw someone like Edith Up or Annetta Fish in their funny video game. Oversexualized designs like that don't belong in a Rayman game in my eyes, but objectively speaking, they don't belong in a kid-friendly game either, hence why it and the bubblization thing mentioned above are in such bad taste in my eyes.

[ChronicTraitor]

I'm not sure how much of a point I can add here, but I did play a lot of French-made games some time ago and most, if not all of them, had something questionably perverted in them (Starshot, Heart of Darkness, Evil Twin, many others but it's been a bit). I just laugh them off with "Ah, I love the French!" because I kind of expect it in French games, Rayman included. The Nymphs didn't bother me either, they need our help first and are pretty ladies second. I could imagine that sexy=funny in French terms also, because it's almost always done for something of humorous effect as far as I've noticed. Pretty much all the Rayman games have these moments in some form or fashion, or in the dialogue.

Perhaps it's not much to add, but it's my perspective as someone who's okay with sexy French jokes and finds them funny, maybe even normal for French-made games.

(Also found a new smiley by the cookie today, I don't remember him being there before. Did anyone know he was there?)

[hoodlumsworld]

For me too, Origins felt like major whiplash. It's one thing to have cheeky humor, but taking Betilla (who was always this elegant, whimsical, almost motherly figure in the first game) and turning her into a hyper-sexualized pin-up just felt so weird. I'm glad to see that Ubisoft eventually dialed it back, even if it came at the cost of hyperrealistic Generilla.